Disagreements and theft.

This has been quite a week. I’ve been spending 8-10 hours a day working on a new release for the shop (trust me, it’s killer), and popping in to SL to test and handle customer service issues. While I was testing yesterday, I got a message from Teagan saying that someone was protesting at our shop. I tp’d over and got smacked by a barrage of sweeping generalizations.

What kind, you ask? The protest was over a kiosk for Autism Speaks. I was rapidly told that Autism Speaks is genocidal, they force women to have abortions, that they’re evil because they fund research. When I explained that research isn’t evil, I was told that yes it was, because the Nazis did research, so “don’t tell me it’s not evil.” I asked for some sort of evidence, and was referred to Wikipedia. When I asked again, I was told to look it up myself.

I’m sorry, but when someone comes to me making outlandish claims, they need to be able to back them up. I’m not unreasonable. I like to think I’m a kind, generous person. But when this person threatened to rip mine and Teagan’s items and offer them for free, I was absolutely livid. It took hours for me to calm down.

Tonight I logged on to a message that some of my items were being passed around full perms, along with a note saying not to support Autism Speaks. I’m hurt, I’m angry. Most of all, I’m frustrated, because it looks as if I’m supporting this protest.

I am not.

So, I’ve taken the black Vanesssa dress (the one ripped and passed around) and put it out for free at my main location (#1 in my picks).

Advertisements

80 Comments

  1. […] LaynieWear Forced to Give Us Vanessa Sadly, LaynieWear is yet another shop that has been forced by theft to make an item a freebie. The Vanessa Dress is located on the first floor to the right of the […]

  2. You got a ping for it before I could tell you that I blogged it. I am so sorry people are such jerks. This is getting out of hand. There is nothing wrong with raising money for Autism research. It is insane that she would do this to you. I have banned her from the HQ for what it is worth.

  3. I agree, and I appreciate the support. Honestly? I support people’s right to not shop at my store. Trash my items if you disagree with my politics. But stealing my stuff is just wrong.

  4. Well, this prompted me to go to your store and make a donation to Autism Speaks – and I’d suggest that anyone else who wants to show how much they despise this blantant content theft does the same – that way at least something good comes out of this 🙂

  5. Jo, that’s the best news I’ve heard all day. Thank you for this.

  6. That is just sick, Autism Speaks is one of the best charitable funds I have ever heard of, researching the causes and possible treatments and in the meantime trying to help patients and their families to live a life that is as “normal” as possible.

    I suggest everyone going over to pick up the vanessa dress and donate generously.

  7. I am beyond shocked. This is some of the most disgusting behaviour I have ever heard of in SL, and I am very sorry you had to experience this Laynie. I admire you for the work you are doing, please don’t let lunatics like this get you down.

  8. This is wrong, wrong, wrong. I will be telling my group to pick up the dress and to donate more than the cost of the dress if they feel so inclined. How revolting of these people to use an issue like this to “justify” theft of any kind. It is revolting beyond belief. Hugs and love Ash xx

    Ps If you need me to spork them just let me know 😉

  9. It is hard to believe that research is evil because the Nazis did it — it is impossible for me to follow the reasoning there, and my job as a college professor is one where I TEACH reasoning skills. I picked up the dress and contributed and blogged here: http://hellodownthere.blogspot.com/

  10. So sorry to hear about this. It is sad to hear that some people are so blind and self-righteous they think their “rightness” excuses unethical conduct.

  11. Man, it’s like a full on witchhunt around here lately.

  12. Wow. Just….wow. That is dropping to new depths of ignorance and pig-headedness. Kudos to you for handing it the way you did – I know I’ll be making a donation as soon as I log on. More power to you 🙂

  13. OH this isnt all they are doing. They are also targeting anyone who donates by lifting names from kiosk floating text, or some other way, I’m not sure. A friend of mine made a rather large donation around Christmas as a present to me, and was targeted.

    My son is severely, yet functionally autistic. Thats a huge part of why I’m working in SL and not elsewhere currently.

    I’m sorry that you were targeted 😦 What an awful situation.

  14. It’s ok, if for no other reason than I’ve seen our kiosk total grow drastically today. That makes it worthwhile, for me.

  15. Tenshi, there’s a difference between a witchhunt and someone who disagrees with you, tells you they’re going to rip and distribute your stuff, then rips and distributes your stuff. This isn’t hearsay, this isn’t speculation. This is my dress, in my box, with me listed as creator, being passed around in her protest kit.

  16. This is a new behaviour in SL…

    I am sorry to hear that this happened to you. 😦

  17. You know, when it first happened, I was furious. Then I was sad.

    Today, in the light of day, I see the incredible amount of donations made today to Autism Speaks at our kiosk. I see the traffic of people coming to donate, and I’m not sad. Maybe this put Autism at the forefront, made people who wouldn’t generally think about it a little more aware.

    I’m willing to lose sales of a dress for that.

  18. That is screwed up. I’m sorry to hear about your dress, that was really a below the belt attack.
    Someone very close to me is autistic and I think it’s awesome that people help raise money for others like him. I just want to say thank you for not backing down..it’s because of people like you that changes happen.

  19. Sae Luan- that comment made me cry. I’m not doing anything, really. It’s everyone else coming, donating, giving support. I am absolutely amazed at the amount of support being shown. I love you guys!

  20. I’m really sorry to see this happen. You haven’t named names and that’s very classy of you, unlike the person who ripped you off.

    I’ll be making a donation to Autism Speaks.

    I hate to see stuff like this happen, but it’s sort of like when the Smart Bitches Trashy Books bloggers found out about the plagiarism including a non fiction article on ferrets and the donations to hep the black footed ferrets soared.

  21. Thank you for the donation and the words of support, Beatrix.

  22. […] my quiet way of giving the finger to the thieves too. As I pondered this post, it appears LaynieWear has been ripped off too, and she has put out the dress for free in her shop as well – […]

  23. I just heard about this and wanted to send some warm thoughts your way. I’m disgusted by the selfishness and unashamed cruelty of those who targeted you. *goes to make a donation*

  24. Konnichiwa Laynie. I read about what happened to you and as a huge SL & RL supporter of Autism Speaks I just want to say how proud I am how you responded to such an attack. I am so sorry this happened to you – people always have the right to disagree but what they did was not the way to handle it.

    ~Emeriselle

  25. Konnichiwa Emeriselle. I agree- I fully support one’s right to boycott a group. But theft is not ok, period.

  26. Me again. Popped in and dropped another donation, which seemed to prompt an IM from the ‘opposing party’. We’ve had quite a talk. I am still resolutely against content theft – no matter what the precise definitions of it are, and whether or not this constituted it (which I still firmly believe it did). However…

    This is probably the wrong forum for this comment, but since I posted here earlier, here is where I am going to update my thoughts on the matter. Bear in mind I am not part of the SL ‘blogosphere’ nor any particular cliques, I’m just yer average SLer.

    Disclaimers apart – the person who did this did it because they have deeply held beliefs about autism, being autistic themselves. I have suggested that, rather than attacking those who are trying to do good by supporting the charity, they try to start a debate in a legitimate forum (erk, and I mentioned the Second Life Herald, which is anything but, but hey…people read it) to get their message across.

    That said, conent theft IS theft, no matter whether permissions are set correctly, copybot was used, the moon was in Taurus or whatever – and targetting people who are showing support for a cause you disagree with is the antithesis of democracy and fairlpay (is my English side showing?).

    All I am saying is that – in this particular case – we are all agreed that the method was wrong, and poor Laynie was the innocent target – BUT the motivation for the theft was heartfelt, if misguided. Don’t let the medium blind you to the message – which, again, you may not agree with, but don’t let that stop you from reading it, and making your own judgement. I’m still thinking about it, myself.

    To understand all is to forgive all, as someone much more intelligent than me once said.

    To sum up – have no regrets about doing my (small) best to recompense Laynie and Autism Speaks, but think this is more than a black and white story (apart from the theft bit).

    Am now trembling in anticipation of the fallout…may have to go on holiday for a month 🙂 Be nice .

    JO

  27. Oh god….i’m steaming here from anger. I’m so sorry to hear this laynie. I’m not at my home right now, on a crappy hotel internet connection but just had to leave some words of support. You think you’re doing something good ha and then there’s always people who cannot appreciate that. Then the stealing of your design is just plain sickening, i’m getting so tired of this theft. Again i’m very sorry and rock on with your designs and imo, GREAT actions!
    t/c
    SySy

  28. I am really, really tired of the tone taken by some autism-related activists, and *I am one.* 🙂

    I run a group called Autism Speaks Doesn’t Speak For Me. I can educate any interested party about the criticisms against Autism Speaks.

    Theft of intellectual property is in no way a proper response to whatever slight was offered, especially if no slight was intended.

  29. Jo- to be perfectly honest, I’m perfectly willing to hear other sides. I asked for evidence, and was given wikipedia (which simply isn’t a valid source because anyone can write/change the information). I know the person involved cares deeply about this cause and I respect (and agree with) her right to boycott me, tell people not to shop at my store, whatever.

    When my content starts being distributed, though, a line is crossed. Rather than have a polite discussion, she chose to threaten me and my partner. This is unacceptable.

  30. Cinco – please share the information. This is in no way an attempt to stifle information. Educate me, please. 😀

  31. I do not support Autism Speaks. Although they do some good things, many of their core philosophies are offensive and they persist in spreading their offensive propaganda despite repeated objections from the autistic community. Few organizations are 100% bad or 100% good, including Autism Speaks, but in my opinion they are more bad than good.

    However this does not in anyway justify theft of your designs!

  32. Laynie – agree with you absolutely abou the content stuff – have spent lots of time tonight explaining to person in questtion ( can I say PIQ please?) just how wrong content theft is. But (and there is always a but!) they turned out to be intelligent, passionate about their stance on this, and open to debate. I found myself going hmm,.well, ok forget the action for now, and look at what prompted it. I am still very much on the fence about the actual issue which prompted the protest, but what concerns me is that that issue will get lost n a discussion about content theft, when it actualy is worthy of debate on its own merits.

    If nothing else, then I reckon I can’t be the only one who knows more aboout autism this evening than I did this morning . That can’t be a bad thing. ( Plus I bought Vanessa in red too…loving your stuff, Laynie :))

  33. The basic issue is one of dignity. Autistic people from all over the spectrum of autism want to be treated like human beings. Thus, when an organization like Autism Speaks offers rhetoric hinting at the worthlessness of autistic people (or worse), what’s an autistic person to do?

    Many autistic persons see rhetoric about looking for a ‘cure’ as a direct insult. Many view their differences as intrinsic to their identity, and are even glad to be different. So when someone comes around passing the hat in order to find a cure, they ask: Cure from what? Answer: Being like me.

    So not only are there the direct difficulties of being on the autism spectrum, but also the sense of being devalued or written off by massive fundraising organizations like Autism Speaks. The struggle is to find dignity in the midst of this kind of social reaction to something absolutely central to your being and identity.

    As far as I’m concerned, ruining the sales of fashions on Second Life for whatever reason does not amplify one’s dignity. But many autistic people feel somewhat desperate about this issue. So here we are.

    Hope that helps. 🙂

  34. I don’t think that’s the issue here. I have an understanding of the aims of the neurodiversity movement, but those beliefs are no excuse for what this person did to Laynie and others.

  35. Hey i report that horrible Scene also in German.
    Here you find it: http://www.second-life-info.de/sl/ein-vorfall-erschuettert-die-fashionwelt-in-secondlife/
    Greetings Rike Lundquist

  36. Honestly, I think you should name names in this case. As LL isn’t all that interested in policing, we have to police ourselves, and aside from the complete and total insanity of his/her reasoning behind the theft, warning people about who to be on alert for simply because s/he is obviously willing to commit blatant content theft.

  37. I am so sick and tired of content theft. I am so angry for our wonderful, creative designers who have virtually no protection from this.

    This person didn’t allow Laynie the chance to hear her side out. She didn’t back up her facts. She did not bring forth her opinions in an intelligent forum when given the chance. Furthermore, this person resorted to low blows to get her point across.

    It’s Laynie’s store so why should this person ever feel they had any right to decide what should and shouldn’t be displayed there?
    What right does this person have to punish and retaliate another for their beliefs?

    What has this person achieved now? Discredit to their beliefs, bad name for themself and more money and attention to the very cause they despise.

    laynie: I love your creations, I’m sorry for what’s happened to you and you’ve handled yourself with class.

  38. This is just plain wrong. Not just the content theft, which we are all getting tired of – at least from what I’ve been reading. But… being against research?? Oh please, come on. Probably this is not the right place to discuss this, but I just need to say something about it. Cinco, I see your point about dignity. I really have no idea about the rhetoric being used by Autism Speaks, but I don’t think pointing to Wikipedia as reference is of much use.
    Unfortunately I do know that not every form of autism allows the affected person to lead a normal life. So, if someone’s donation can contribute for the development of research aimed at improving this person’s life in any way, then it is good. Denying the opportunity to others is just selfish – and donating for whatever cause is just an act of altruism that should be admired, never criticised. The intention is what counts, since it’s practically impossible to know exactly where and how the money is used in those cases. No one should come and tell me how to spend my lindens as long as I’m not damaging anyone with them (e.g. buying ripped off stuff).
    Laynie, I take my hat off to the way you have handled the situation. You got caught in the middle of it, and have responded in a wonderful way. Congratulations.

  39. I was dreading the day when this whole fiasco would end up in a SL blog somewhere, but I guess its too late huh?
    Please let me tell you that this person was acting alone and without the knowledge of others.
    I also know that despite of this, every active member of Aspies For Freedom and Autism Speaks Doesnt Speak For Me were uneccesarily placed on the parcel banlist at Layniewear (check it out there Cinco, you’re on thier banlist too :D)
    A message was indeed delivered amongst AFF members to boycott your store, and at first I thought the mass banning was in response to that. Now this blog has filled in some of the missing events.

    The frustrations within the RL autistic community are growing daily. When will autistics voices be listened to? It seems thier voices are silenced in favour of the voices of parents, researchers, and some CEO’s with a lot of money in thier pockets.
    Are we silenced in SL too? Maybe the person who did this thought so.

  40. […] think some people need to be aware of the insanity behind the recent theft inflicted upon Laynie. The night before stealing Laynie’s dress the thief made threats to […]

  41. […] not big and it’s not clever so don’t bloody do it. Just read this blog post on Laynie’s blog and I’m really saddened by it.  Content theft is making the news on a daily basis now, but […]

  42. Hello,
    This is off subject but I want to let you know the kind of person you are dealing with. Lalinda Lovell is a predator. I had a run in with her many months ago. At the time she was spouting off about LInden Labs ban against child play. She TPed me to her love nest, which was all child play. She was dressed as child avatar and there were others involved in sexual activity. She quickly banned me from all properties. At the time she was a member of the Jennifer World Crew. She is a fanatic. My advice to all content creators is to ban her. Any dealings with this avatar will just reflect poorly on your judgment now and after she does something else unfounded and absurd.

    -QT

  43. Laynie: the theft of content the theft of ANYTHING is never right. period. From what i have read and heard about this incident, you handled it with as much grace as you could.

    To the leaders and members of various SL Asperger’s and Autism groups that have posted here:
    I invite you to talk with me. You want your voices to be heard? I am offering an opportunity. I am curator of Angel Dorei Museum in world. I am dedicating my April show to autism awareness, education and support. I am seeking works by people on the spectrum so that they can share their view thru their eyes and voices.

    Everyone has a right to their opinion, everyone has a right to dignity. Theft and harrassment are NOT the answer.

  44. Hi Laynie,

    I’m a person that often protests against Autism Speaks. As such, I’d like to join the others here in expressing my sorrow at the actions of the person that did this.

    I suspect that part of the reason this happened is that many of us made an unofficial decision to leave these kiosks be, and some people were quite annoyed at this.

    There are some quite angry and bitter people around, and you have been the victim of one of them. You are quite obviously a good person, doing what you believe is right – and that should be respected.

    Even if you leave the theft aside, I cannot believe that someone would protest against you without bothering to contact you first.

    If you are still interested, I have some more solid reasons why Autism Speaks is a damaging organisation, and I will be happy to post them here, but only at your request. If you are sick of discussing autism, I will simply reiterate my outrage at the twit that did this, then leave you in peace.

    – Zakkie.

  45. […] Laynie Link was pushed up against a wall this week when she released a few dresses, sales were to be donated to Autism Speaks – a research group regarding autism.  An avatar (who Laynie didn’t know at the time) began spamming groups, saying “Don’t support it!” linking people to the aforementioned Wiki page, and justifying her actions further by hacking Second Life and taking Laynie’s creations and passing them around for free. “Here guys, you won’t have to buy this – I just ripped it, have it for free! Boycott Layniewear!” […]

  46. This is what I posted over on “shopping cart disco” which sums up the main issues, I’m the founder of the AFF(Aspies For Freedom) group in both RL and SL and have been working against organisations such as autism speaks since 2004.

    You know, i’ve refrained from commenting on blogs about this subject so far but as someone I consider a good friendis being so misrepresented and viciously attacked I feel I must step in.

    1 She did not “hack” second life, she used a lawfully purchased copy of the items in question with the original creator tag still set and which Laynie had enabled copy/transfer perms on.

    2 – Whether or not you are personally into ageplay, BDSM, group sex or anything else it is of no relevance. What consenting adults do in private is up to them and using these private activities as an ad-hominem attack against them only demonstrates your own intellectual laziness.

    3 – The TYPE of research and other activities conducted by autism speaks is highly similar to how the nazis behaved. Researching how to eliminate a group of people (autistics) and spending most of their budget on genetic research for a prenatal test is what autism speaks does while publically stating how they wish to PREVENT or cure autism. The only prevention is prenatal screening and abortion or sterilisation of those who carry the gene. As someone who has already seen firsthand just how pushy organisations such as social services can be when they discover an autistic woman is pregnant I know the risks are very very real.

    Note that I have also interviewed the founder of the UK branch of autism speaks and was told about their apparent plans to support education etc. When I later emailed her for documentation she could only present me with research abstracts relating mainly to genetics with a few neurology studies. The charity’s objects in the UK at least would make it illegal for them to actually support other goals. Besides this their other blatant lies designed to shut up autistics include pretending that the charity commission does not allow autistics to act as charity directors in response to us asking why they have no autistics on their board. This was confirmed as a blatant lie with the charity commission.

    Autism speaks merged with another organisation named CAN (Cure Autism Now) who actually provided funding for a prenatal test and then denied it. They also have supporters known for spitting on and hurling abuse at protestors (i.e autistic adults).

    As for Lalinda, please tell me where she says “it’s all OK because i have aspergers”? To my knowledge she has never said this, though please correct me if I am wrong.

    I’ll also say that I knew Torley before he worked at LL and based on where he used to hang out I have a feeling that though he probably won’t say it publically he wouldn’t be too happy about curebies infiltrating SL either. LL’s staff cannot of course render judgement on people who are not breaking the TOS. However, Laynie has very possibly been guilty of breaking the ADA by banning nearly all autistic adults based on group membership from her stores. For those who are unfamiliar, ADA==Americans with Disabilities Act, even though I consider that autism is not a disability in all cases, legally it still is one and falls under the ADA. Until autistics are recogonised as a minority group without needing to accept the label of disability the ADA stands as one of the few effective weapons we have against discrimination. I will be talking to LL and then to an attorney potentially if this blanket ban remains in force too much longer.

    To all of you who have taken the protests against autism speaks from autistic adults as a sign that you should donate to them more: I condemn you. You would not respond the same way if an organisation named “cure females now” was openly advertising sex changes for all woman and screening for lack of a Y chromosome had these donation kiosks in SL. I would hope you would not support an organisation that done this even more simply due to protests from women either. To be clear, autism has a few comorbid conditions and negative traits in the same way that being black, male, female, young, old, british or american does. This does not mean that it is right to support wiping us all out and wiping out all future generations.

    For reference:
    Black people get sickle cell
    Males get testicular cancer
    Females get ovarian cancer and higher rates of breast cancer
    Young people get taken less seriously in various ways or actually are more immature
    Old people have various age-related health conditions
    British people don’t have a strong written constitution (our constitution is more or less the whole body of common law)
    Americans are a bigger target for terrorist attacks these days

    And autistics SOMETIMES suffer from sensory overload, poor communication skills and executive dysfunction. The keyword being SOMETIMES. I’ll note that I myself have had terrible sensory overload at times and would love to find a treatment for it that does not also make me too drowsy to function. To date, I haven’t found any research in this area which would not also involve the risk of serious brain damage and I have found NONE WHATSOEVER coming from autism speaks or similar “charities”. Whenever I attempt an open dialogue with autism speaks or their supporters all I end up with hearing lies from bigots.

    Torley again (and the other undiagnosed but obviously aspie lindens): Do you really think that SL would be better without them? Had autism speaks had their way several years ago SL likely wouldn’t exist. All the geeks you see who spend more time talking C++ than english have at least one autistic trait. Read Simon Baron Cohen’s views on associative mating and the clusters in silicon valley.

  47. Laynie, I’d like to withdraw my previous comments, as it appears that you have misrepresented the truth.

  48. Gareth- If you’ll notice, I did not even comment on the parts of the elise dress that are being distributed, because that was MY mistake- I released it full perms before realizing I’d done it. But I never released Vanessa full perms. NEVER.

    If you look, I never even mentioned her name. That’s other people, not me. So how, exactly, am I misrepresenting her, much less using an ad hominem attack?

    Third, we disagree about Autism Speaks. That’s fine, and if you want to boycott the shop, I support that. But passing out my wares (regardless of how they were gotten) is NOT the way to accomplish it.

  49. EvilZakkie- I have misrepresented nothing. I’ve simply explained what happened, over and over and over again.

  50. Oh, and since I forgot to address it in the first comment? When this all happened, I was told that she was doing this as part of Autism Speaks Doesn’t Speak For Me. As I’d been threatened with having my entire shop ripped, I banned that group. I quickly realized that I was wrong, and unbanned them

    That’s hardly the autistic population of SL, and it’s since been undone. (Prior to the posting of your comment, I might add.)

  51. There is NO reason on this planet that anyone should support a person who knowingly takes content from a designer out of spite because they do not agree on a heated issue and distributes it. Those supporting Lalinda should be ashamed of themselves.

    As Laynie said, Vanessa was NEVER released with accidental perms. Believe me, if it had been, we would have seen it much sooner than now because we all know how that goes in the resale market.

    Lalinda identified herself as a representative of that group.

    Someone brought up Torley. I will have your know that about a week prior to Lalinda coming to harass our store, Laynie had made special skins just for Torley and gave them to her.

  52. from Gareth Nelson
    “2 – Whether or not you are personally into ageplay, BDSM, group sex or anything else it is of no relevance. What consenting adults do in private is up to them and using these private activities as an ad-hominem attack against them only demonstrates your own intellectual laziness.”

    i find this really hypocritical. It has no relevance that she is involved in something that many, many people, LL included, think is wrong and disturbing and yet you judge Laynie and support Lalinda’s theft of her property based on Laynie supporting a cause that YOU don’t agree with. You support Lalinda actions against Laynies personal beliefs but when the same is done to Lalinda it is of no relevance? how convenient for you.

  53. A few responses:
    First, my post above is a copy and paste of what I posted on shopping cart disco and so is not a direct reply to Laynie.

    Second, most of the group is indeed still banned, myself included as I discovered when I attempted to visit the store. I have had numerous complaints from people regarding this. If the content in question was never released with full perms then you are saying one of 2 things has happened:

    1 – Copybot or a similar piece of software was used, but then the creator tag would have changed as these programs work by remaking the content clientside.
    2 – There is a zero-day permissions exploit which Lalinda knows about, or one which was reported and unfixed, if that is true then it’s quite a serious allegation for which you need some strong evidence. If you do have evidence of such an exploit then you should report it to LL.

    If you are of the opinion that “even if it isn’t theft, it isn’t the right way to do things” based on the loss of income it causes, then you have not paid attention to what the purpose of a boycott is. Believe me, if this incident is proven to have taken place via a zero-day exploit later then I personally will probably do all within my power to help stop it being abused further but I will still not ever concede that willful support of an organisation such as autism speaks after one has been given the information on them and actually INCREASING donations to them is an ethical course of action.

    As for the issue of ageplay, I see no comparision between my philosophy that 2 consenting adults may engage in any form of sexual activity with each other in private and the philosophy that an entire group of people must be wiped out of the human genepool. The former is a matter of personal taste (for the record I’m quite apathetic towards ageplay roleplay, it simply doesn’t turn me on or actively disgust me) and the latter is a matter of human rights and genocide.

    Supporting autism speaks without knowledge of what they are truly about I can forgive, but supporting them with full knowledge of the facts, and worse supporting them MORE due to protests against them is nothing short of evil. I condemn any who willfully support an organisation whose aim is to ensure nobody like me or my family is ever born again.

  54. Gareth, I still have not seen valid reports that Autism Speaks does anything that Lalinda was claiming. For all of those disease you listed to compare autism too, guess what? They all have charitable organizations that raise money for research.

    Sickle Cell Anemia: http://www.sicklecellsociety.org/
    Ovarian, Breast, Testicular Cancers http://www.cancer.org/

    Research does not equal wanting to kill you. What if through research a new medication is found so that non-verbal children can communicate better
    ? What if through research they develop gene therapy to help ALL people reach their potential? To stifle that is vile.

    As for copybot, you are wrong on that one. There is a new evil one that copies the creator as well. Which ever method she used is wrong? A quick stroll for anyone to her sim will see that most, if not all, of her items are ripped. I suggest that if you are a designer, it would be in your best interest to get there and make sure your stuff is not there.

  55. Most of which group? I personally removed all the ones I banned specifically, so it would seem that perhaps you were at the shop doing something to cause my landlord to ban you, or my partner. No one at the shop is banned for being autistic.

    How, exactly, am I supposed to prove that an exploit was used a year ago, when I released this? Or that it was done recently? All I can say is that I never released that full perms.

    Finally, you’ve shown NO evidence that Autism Speaks wants to prevent people like you from being born. What i’ve found is that they want to encourage early intervention to help people live, to communicate. I support your right to believe as you like, but I strongly disagree with your allegations toward Autism Speaks.

  56. You keep saying that Autism speaks supports genocide but have yet to site one source supporting it other than Lalinda telling Laynie to look it up on wikpedia. Which is not a valid source anyway. I’m sure that if you had proof people would be more prone to listening, but that still doesn’t make what Lalinda did acceptable.

    I don’t support autism speaks because I don’t know enough about them one way or the other but Lalinda didn’t handle the situation well and your support of her actions makes you and your organization look bad.

    Instead of running around badmouthing people without even talking to them personally why not try having a civil conversation with them first. Boycotting a store and telling someone to look up wikipedia for the reason why they are boycotting isnt exactly civil conversation. People aren’t supporting autism speaks because of protest against them they are support it in protest against the actions of Lalinda. If she is going to act so irrational then why should people listen to what she has to say? exteme actions like that get plenty of attention but its not good attention for you or the organiztion you support.

    You condemn the people that support autism speaks and yet want them to boycott the organization based on what? you havent provided any proof of their wrong doing.

  57. “Second, most of the group is indeed still banned, myself included as I discovered when I attempted to visit the store.”

    Gareth, Gareth, you’ve let your alt show. Gareth Ellison is still banned because of the protesting that my landlord witnessed, plus the fact that Gareth Ellison sent out the copy of my dress to the autism protest group. THAT would be why you’re banned, not because you’re autistic.

  58. “you’ve let your alt show”
    Excuse me? Are you accusing me of being Lalinda’s alt?

    I in fact was standing just outside of your land’s border, the ban was in effect before I even entered the same sim. Upon the landlord coming I talked to him stating clearly I would leave if requested and did so, since then I have not returned.

    I have received multiple complaints from others whose only “crime” was group membership. It just so happens that the groups I am referring to are the only autism groups on SL with an anti-cure viewpoint.

    As for further evidence, if you need documentation then I am in the process of preparing it. For now, wikipedia is a perfectly valid introduction to any subject and the external links to press articles etc are perfectly valid sources.

  59. You were not banned at that point, and my landlord told me that he banned you. You still haven’t addressed the fact that you distributed my items. I won’t be talking about this with you further, because you seem interested not in the truth, but in your twisted version of it.

  60. Laynie – I was in fact banned at that point, why do you think the whole time I was standing in a neighbouring parcel?
    As soon as I attempted to TP in I saw banlines. If your landlord banned me after I left then that’s a different story, but if he claims to have banned me from your parcel after seeing me there that is a blatant lie as I could never actually set foot on your parcel.

    As for the fact that I distributed your items this is entirely accurate, I was given a copy of the chat logs by Lalinda and asked to distribute the items too and thus did so having checked the original creator tag was still present. If you present any evidence of a permissions exploit being used (this includes proof that such an exploit existed at the time you believe Lalinda to have purchased or otherwise obtained your content) then I will withdraw my support for this action. As it happens, I can see no evidence of any wrongdoing besides a vague “harming Laynie’s business”.

    Since the whole point of a boycott is as a legal form of protest which works by harming someone’s business in order to make them listen, I see harming your business in any legal way as completely legitimate. Your continued open support of autism speaks which has recently increased I view as a signal that you are doing the opposite of what the autistic community wishes. Far from helping us, you are harming us more and so personally I will take any legal form of action I can to harm you.

    Yes, that is a threat, but it in no way involves actions such as harrassment etc and I will not bother with so much as an in-world IM unless for an unrelated reason it becomes important. I am always willing to apologise on behalf of anyone from AFF who has resorted to actual abuse and have in fact done so when I was informed about an allegation that some AFF members had been harrassing Daphne. I will however defend the rights of any AFF members to peaceful and legal protest of any form. Should I ever actually need to contact you in-world it will be in order to apologise for any possible future incident which really was abusive.

    If you do not wish to talk to me further and accuse me of twisting the truth, that is your decision, though I will draw people’s attention to your further ignorance on the matter. Should your wishes include my refraining from posting further comments on your blog then I am always willing to respect private property and leave where the owner of that property gives me a clear statement that I am no longer welcome. If you wish to have me refrain from further comments then please state so in clear terms and I will comply.

    I can predict someone will accuse me of hypocrisy and repeat the fallacy that my support of Lalinda’s actions is disrespectful of private property, so i’ll respond early by saying that by you ticking the box to enable copy/transfer permissions you are giving an implicit license for that content to be redistributed. Should you ever take this matter to court you would lose for that reason.

  61. For the last time, I DID NOT release Vanessa with full perms. You can repeat that as much as you like, and you’ll still be wrong. You do not speak for the autistic community. You speak for yourself.

    Threaten me. Sue me. I don’t care. You have yet to show one shred of evidence that Autism Speaks is the evil organization you say it is.

    You will have no reason to ever contact me. I don’t wish your apology. I wish nothing from you, other than perhaps you understanding that the situation is not as you see it. As that will not happen, we have nothing more to discuss.

  62. Gareth, the old copy stuff did not copy the creator’s name over but the new stuff does. This is old news. I think the first designer hit with that kind of theft where their name was on something they did not release full perm occurred in June 2007. Laynie is not the first designer to have items ripped from her with her own name still listed as the creator. There is no excuse for anyone stealing and/or distributing content. You are just trying to justify your own wrong doings when they are clearly unjustifiable. Stop speaking out of your ass.

    Apparently all you can do is complain and not show any proof of your stance. I spent several hours, along with a few others, researching this so-called allegation against Autism Speaks. I spoke with parents of children with autism, interventionists, advocates, developmental specialists, special education professionals, and even my old college professor who testifies in court cases throughout the US on due process cases for IEPs and guess what? They told me, in their own way, you are full of crap.

  63. When you say this:
    For the last time, I DID NOT release Vanessa with full perms. You can repeat that as much as you like, and you’ll still be wrong.

    You are making a very serious allegation yourself without any proof. You are accusing Lalinda of using a previously unknown permissions exploit. In order to make such an accusation in public you need to back it up with evidence, otherwise it is quite simply slander/libel.

    As for saying I don’t speak for the autistic community, that’s both true and not true. I do not represent every single autistic, but my views are shared by quite a large majority of adult autistics, some of whom have shared their views on this incident with you.

    I have stated that I am in the process of preparing documentation regarding autism speaks and will release this to the public when ready. The wikipedia page you were referred to (If it was the autism rights movement page or the autism speaks article) has a few links you can follow up for more information which should at least have made you think more on the subject rather than dismissing the opposing viewpoint straight away.

    The situation as I see it is this:
    1 – Lalinda came across the kiosk at your store and IMed you about it
    2 – After you were unhappy to talk to her about it and responded in a fairly hostile manner you filed an abuse report
    3 – Lalinda informed you that she would be boycotting you and this would involve distributing some of your content
    4 – Lalinda then sent a full-perms copy of some of your content with an attached note and the original creator tag to me and to a few other places (I am not aware of where else she sent the content to, I am told that she simply distributed them to other groups).
    5 – I distributed the item in the AFF group as a group notice attachment
    6 – Lalinda received a temporary ban which she appealled against and then returned to the grid
    7 – As a reaction, at some point you banned the whole of the “Autism speaks doesn’t speak for me” group and a few from the “Aspies for freedom” and “autistic liberation front” groups
    8 – You subsequently at some point lifted some of these bans, but not all of them
    9 – You made this public post accusing Lalinda of theft and thus implied that she had used an illegal means of acquiring the content, though have produced 0 evidence that any illegal means was used
    10 – Upon attempting to visit your store I discovered I could not enter and stayed on the neighbouring parcel. Your landlord arrived after I passed a notecard to a donor (I presume that someone reported my presence) and talked to me. I asked if he wished me to leave and upon receiving a yes left voluntarily. If he later banned me from the whole sim or that neighbouring parcel I am unaware.
    11 – You or your landlord lied about point 10 by stating that I was banned after already protesting on your parcel. I was stood just over the parcel border and could not enter. Furthermore I complied with your landlord’s request and was not unreasonable towards anyone in my behaviour.

    Finally, when you say “I wish nothing from you” you still have not clearly indicated whether you wish me to refrain from posting here. I am asking this as an honest query as to what your wishes are and will respect them if given a clear statement. Your above post implies you wish no contact in-world even for any potential future apologies and I have already noted that you are not to be IMed or otherwise contacted inworld. Please state clearly whether you do or do not wish me to refrain from commenting on your blog. I will comply with such a request but note that I will also not fail to exercise my right to draw people’s attention to this fact.

  64. Teagan, in response to this:
    Gareth, the old copy stuff did not copy the creator’s name over but the new stuff does. This is old news. I think the first designer hit with that kind of theft where their name was on something they did not release full perm occurred in June 2007.

    I would like a citation for that with proof that such a bug existed or still exists within the SL server software. Unless there is a known issue with the permissions system server-side then such exploits are quite simply not possible. The client sends a request to copy something which the server denies if the copy flag is not set, if the client remakes something in identical form client-side then the server tags the new object with the thieve’s name as creator.

  65. The situation as I see it is this:
    1 – Lalinda came across the kiosk at your store and IMed you about it
    2 – After you were unhappy to talk to her about it and responded in a fairly hostile manner you filed an abuse report
    3 – Lalinda informed you that she would be boycotting you and this would involve distributing some of your content
    4 – Lalinda then sent a full-perms copy of some of your content with an attached note and the original creator tag to me and to a few other places (I am not aware of where else she sent the content to, I am told that she simply distributed them to other groups).
    5 – I distributed the item in the AFF group as a group notice attachment
    6 – Lalinda received a temporary ban which she appealled against and then returned to the grid
    7 – As a reaction, at some point you banned the whole of the “Autism speaks doesn’t speak for me” group and a few from the “Aspies for freedom” and “autistic liberation front” groups
    8 – You subsequently at some point lifted some of these bans, but not all of them
    9 – You made this public post accusing Lalinda of theft and thus implied that she had used an illegal means of acquiring the content, though have produced 0 evidence that any illegal means was used
    10 – Upon attempting to visit your store I discovered I could not enter and stayed on the neighbouring parcel. Your landlord arrived after I passed a notecard to a donor (I presume that someone reported my presence) and talked to me. I asked if he wished me to leave and upon receiving a yes left voluntarily. If he later banned me from the whole sim or that neighbouring parcel I am unaware.
    11 – You or your landlord lied about point 10 by stating that I was banned after already protesting on your parcel. I was stood just over the parcel border and could not enter. Furthermore I complied with your landlord’s request and was not unreasonable towards anyone in my behaviour.

    Funny, this is exactly NOT how it happened in actuality. She didn’t IM me, I went to the shop. She accosted me in her very first comment, and continued in a hysteria after that. I was NOT hostile with her. I was patient, but didn’t immediately remove the kiosk.

    I ARd Lalinda for the abusive comments in her discussion, but got no response from SL. She wasn’t banned at all, nor was there anything to appeal. This all happened much faster than you seem to think.

    I already said i banned Autism Speaks Doesn’t Speak For Me. I later unbanned the group, other than yourself. You do NOT get to harass my patrons.

    You’ve repeatedly shown yourself to be unreasonable, as reasonable people would understand what I’ve been saying. How, exactly, am I supposed to prove that I released Vanessa without full perms? That was almost a year ago. The fact is, it is possible to copy things now without changing the owner. This is not a lie, this is not slander. This is FACT.

    Talking to you is clearly not helping. Feel free to post as much as you like here. But believe me- I have better things to do than repeatedly argue the same issues with you.

  66. “The fact is, it is possible to copy things now without changing the owner”
    Then please give a citation regarding this bug. I appreciate the difficulty in proving a negative, and so I am asking you to prove a positive, that this bug exists and that Lalinda used it. Should you produce such evidence then I will retract my support of Lalinda’s actions, though I should also point out that I am highly familiar with the guts of the SL protocol having worked on open source implementations of it myself and the only way I can see to forge a creator tag (and inspect history!) is if there is a serious bug in the servers. Such a serious bug would have a public page somewhere describing it and so it should be trivial for you to just give that link.

    Should you not have any such evidence, it is in fact quite hypocritical of you to complain that those criticising autism speaks have 0 evidence. If you are in fact still willing and provide an email address I will send you a copy of the report I am in the process of writing once it is complete. If not, then I can only point out that you in fact have went back on your word when you said you would be willing to listen. If you prefer not to hand out your email address then I will simply post the URL here as you have given your (somewhat nastily stated) consent with your last post.

    As for Lalinda being banned, I know from private corrospondence that she was. She even sent out a group notice to one of her other groups advising people to appeal if they had similar bans. Again, if you are making another accusation such as this without evidence then you are quite possibly guilty of slander/libel.

    I had not set foot in your store nor spoken to any of your patrons when I attempted to TP in. The ban was already in place before I could possibly have done anything there. Furthermore, dropping a notecard to someone with a followup IM thanking them and asking them to contact me if anyone from AFF bothers them unneccessarily is not harrassment. I will not break the confidentiality of those who did contact me and complain about the blanket ban, but I will ask why I was banned without setting foot there. The only reason I can think of is of course my group affiliation, being co-founder of AFF and a member of autism speaks doesn’t speak for me.

    A reasonable person with even a basic knowledge of the way SL’s permissions system works could see that a server-side bug is required to forge a creator tag on an object and/or copy it without implicit consent. A reasonable person would also be able to see that even if one has moral objections to boycotting practices that include the legal distribution of your content that it is still a legal course of action and not “theft”. You have failed to actually prove that you are a victim of theft and responded to all requests that you do so with empty statements such as this one:

    “How, exactly, am I supposed to prove that I released Vanessa without full perms? That was almost a year ago. The fact is, it is possible to copy things now without changing the owner. This is not a lie, this is not slander. This is FACT.”

    I know that at least for me, I can not accept this as fact given my knowledge of how SL works unless you can point me to any evidence of server-side bugs that enabled the theft you are alleging. What it looks like to me is that you did at some point release the content full-perms and forgot about it and are now so full of anger that not everyone agrees with what you considered a good cause that you have forgotten about it. Either this or you are blatantly lieing in public to get sympathy. If you can not produce evidence of the bug which enabled this, I am forced to believe the only logical conclusion: that you released the content yourself and ticked the little boxes marked copy/transfer and therefore gave everyone an implicit license to do what Lalinda has done.

  67. Right, because I’m going to tell other people how to reproduce this. Sorry, no. Believe what you like. I really don’t care.

    However, I think you should look up slander and libel again. I don’t think you know what they mean.

  68. Garath, what’s pretty obvious from all your extended excuses for condoning theft is that no proof of any sort ever given to you will ever be acceptable unless it agrees with your narrow minded opinion.

  69. Laynie – contact me in private with your evidence. However, it really does seem you have none. If you still refuse to do this, then really I must conclude that you have none. I have no interest in any illegal activity whatsoever and would not abuse such evidence nor inform others. You should have my email address already as blog administrator, if not it is:
    gareth 12 gareth nelson 14 com
    (edited to stop spambots, 12 is the at sign and 14 is a dot)

    I’m asking for evidence for your accusations against a member of my group, a reasonable enough thing for me to ask. If you doubt my intentions then ask all those who actually complain to me about how low my tolerance for illegal activity is. Offline at protests I will not even tolerate someone who walks onto the land where a fundraising walk is taking place after being told they are not welcome. Trespassing and copyright infringement are both illegal activities that I will not tolerate from anyone who is using the title of my organisation as there are many many legal ways to fight.

    As for slander/libel, perhaps not slander as that is spoken verbally, but see this:

    “Published words or pictures that falsely and maliciously defame a person. Libel is published defamation; slander is spoken.”
    http://courts.delaware.gov/How%20To/court%20proceedings/?ccpglossary.htm

    Neural – I do not condone theft, this is not about theft. It is about what Laynie CLAIMS to be theft without any evidence to date. I am asking for evidence because I believe that Laynie is either lieing malaciously out of anger or has forgotten when she did hand out her content with an implicit license.

  70. The “accused” member of your group has a shop full of stolen BBIAB crap. You’ve willingly distributed my stolen good. Why on earth would I trust you?

  71. Very well, as you’ve provided 0 evidence whatsoever I am forced to conclude that you in fact have none and that you are either lieing or simply forgot. Regardless, your total lack of willingess to provide the evidence for your accusation is something I will now be informing people about.

  72. You do that, Gareth, and send them here to read the exchange. Some of us are concerned about IP rights.

  73. Of course we should tell him how to do this because then they can go run off and steal other stuff. Gareth, grow up.

    The original case of this happening was on June 19, 2007 to Tami McCoy. I will not go into the details on HOW it was done because that would be stupid.
    http://tamshair.blogspot.com/2007/06/i-always-intended-to-keep-personal.html

    I have witnessed person proving this was possible by duplicating one of my items(as a test) that was no mod/no transfer that I had given them and they handed it back to me full perm with myself listed as the creator. So do not tell me this isn’t possible and quick and easy to do.

    Fact: I was the only person Lalinda was sending harassing IMs to. Laynie was in the store, in person.

    Fact: Lalinda threatened to take all of our items and make the freebies.

    Fact: You still have given us no proof that Autism Speaks has done anything wrong.

    Fact: You are lucky that our landlord banned you because I would have if he hadn’t beat me to it.

  74. Lalinda/Grateth/Whoever, give it up. You think you have it so high and righteous with your rambling “arugments” but in reality all you are basing it on is that you want Laynie to “prove” something that is not possible to prove. Beyond stating that the item was not put up full perms and getting statements from others who may have seen the item was not full perms, there is no way to prove it at all, and you know that. Your argument is a facade.
    There is no big computer system run by Linden Lab that keeps track of all perms on items set out. In that respect she can no more provide proof to your closed mind than you can provide proof that you are autistic by going to the field next to your house, running around dancing and proclaiming to be the rainman to every person who happens to pass by. It just doesn’t work that way.

  75. Teagan – I have sent you a single IM in world with an offer to purchase the content in question legitimately (provided the funds do not go to autism speaks) in order to compare the inspect logs if you are not willing to provide details of the actual method.

    However, another way to settle this has occurred to me – you say someone has done this for you as a test, if you can arrange for me to witness such a test then that would be suitable evidence without the need to disclose the method.

  76. Neural – I am not Lalinda, I have already said that I will withdraw my support of Lalinda if I receive proof.

    In fact, there is system run by linden lab that keeps track of permissions, a few of them (otherwise there would be no way for the servers to inform the viewer):
    The simulators
    The inventory server
    The asset server

    You are right that there are no public logs of changes on permissions, but each individual item has a set of flags assigned to it which the client can only change if authorised, UNLESS the server code which processes this has a remotely exploitable bug.

    The way in which Laynie can prove her accusations is to prove that the action she claims (theft of her content while retaining creator tag) is actually possible. Should Teagan respond with sufficient evidence then I will accept this.

  77. No, the asset servers and simulators do not contain date and time data related to the exact condition of an object at the time it was rezzed or last edited. It’s not like there is some change log floating around for each of hundreds of millions of assets. The volume of information created by something like that would be well beyond anything that LL is capable of.

    Content theft is an open book when it comes to methods and results. Textures can be stolen in a number of ways, primitives can be reproduced via about as many. The methods of how it is done are freely available, but you can go look it up.
    Things that are common knowledge or even not so common knowledge in SL and in RL don’t need to be proved in order to be used as supporting evidence for a claim.
    As was stated earlier, no-one here is going to tell you how to do it. One, because you already know. Two, because we aren’t going to fall for that trick and allow you to claim that we are at fault for it happening because we told people how to do it. Nice try.

    You will withdraw your support of yourself if it is proven that you are Lalinda?
    I see. Glad to know we can count on you for that.

  78. Simply put Gareth, you are grasping at straws.

    The fact is, Laynie doesn’t have ANYTHING to prove to you. She is not the one who started this fiasco. Instead of harrassing her to prove what Lalinda did, perhaps Lalinda should be the one to provide proof that she didn’t. Have you asked her?

    Probably not, heaven forbid she might be in the wrong. I can see how eager you are to actually find out the truth; I’ve noticed you completely ignored the documentation Teagan provided of this happening to Tami McCoy. No, you’d rather attack Laynie with outlandish claims because she doesn’t cow-tow to your beliefs.

    And they are outlandish. Why on earth would Laynie go to such lengths to implicate someone she probably doesn’t even know of something they didn’t do? What possible reason?

    Laynie, you’ve handled this WHOLE ordeal admirably, and I’m sorry this can’t accept it.

    9 posts and I’ve yet to see something new from you, Gareth. Come back when you have something worthwhile to say.

  79. Gareth, you are a total idiot. Why would we believe you? Everyone knows you are Lalinda’s lover. Yes, some of us looked for the truth. How is it going with the organization that you, yourself founded? Anything that your organization says is bullshirt. I have gotten the notecards and you are disgraceful. Who died and made you the speaker for the rest of us? You are making all of us look like morons. Stop pretending you speak for the autism community at large and go home to your Sugar Mama.

    Laynie, Teagan, and the other commenters, please, do not think for 1 minute that this boy speaks for the rest of us or that Lalinda is what we are all like. I am embarrassed that they are trying to lump me into their fight by saying that stand for all of us. These 2 are making a mockery out of who we are and how we want to be treated. Most of us are just looking for even footing and many of us do not even mention that we have autism. These 2 are disgraceful using their autism as an excuse for their rude and unethical behavior. They said that Autism Speaks Doesn’t Speak for Them, well Gareth and his sugar mama, Lalinda, do not speak for me and many others.

    Anyone else reading this who thinks for 1 minute that Gareth is even slightly truthful? (looks at mislead Zakkie) Do not take Gareth’s word on this matter. He is lying for his lover and siding with them makes us all look bad.

  80. When I heard about this through an Autism Speaks group IM I was stunned. Yes I do realise that not everyone likes what the organisation does and it’s ok people say this, freedom of speech, right? But hearing about items being ripped off and handed out for free because of supporting the cause I found awful. From what I heard the opinion of the person responsible for this is not close to reality and this person is trying to force us to share her opinion. Now what she did doesn’t sound legal to me by whatever law protecting your creations I can think of. I hope this will end soon.


Comments RSS TrackBack Identifier URI

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s